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  #31  
Old 07-05-2008, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Grumpy View Post
You know, as a NooB I'm kinda pissed at all this "secrete spot" stuff. How the hell am I supposed to know if I'm in "your" spot? Even if you show me a great spot am I to assume that you are going to be there 24/7 ever after? If we are tight enough for you to show me "your" spot to begin with shouldn't it stand to reason that if you came upon me in "your" spot that we would be tight enough to fish there together?

Also, and this is PURE NooB talking, what secrete spots are you talking about? I just started fishing for any thing this year. I read all about trout and black bass and scouted my local lakes and rivers and went to the "good spots". Waste of time. I should have gone and muscled in along side of EVERY ONE ELSE because that's where the fish-catching was going on. That's exactly what I did when I hit the beach. I did the exact same thing as every one else and I caught my first striper on my first clam. BTW: That's MY spot now and I don't want to see any of you ****ers there. If you DO go there please be kind enough to identify yourselves to me so that I can pick you out from the other 400 ****ers that are there, have NOT read my claim-stake here and therefore are NOT banned from "my" spot. Now, up here, closer to home, I would LOVE some one to tell me where the fish are. There are a thousand little paths that lee down to the river. Some of them are disgusting places filled with trash, human refuse and garbage. Not all of them get you to the river. Not all of them get you to a place where you can catch Bass. Nothing I love more than tramping all my crap over some abandoned dirty diapers only to get skunked. I guess that's "putting in my time" but I'll tell you what, if and when I DO find a clean, quiet place that produces fish I won't hide it from people because I might want to go back there three weeks from next Thursday.

There are THOUSANDS of people fishing and there are limited places for them to fish, from shore or on the water. 90% of the fish are in 10% of the water and that's the same place as every one else is trying to go to catch them. Unless I am trespassing on some ones private property, on YOUR private property, what's the issue?

<please watch the language, we have kids here ~ Sudsy>
There's a lot here so I'll take it one bit at a time

How the hell am I supposed to know if I'm in "your" spot?

Obviously because I brought you there and told you it was my secret spot

Even if you show me a great spot am I to assume that you are going to be there 24/7 ever after?

Of course not, I showed you that spot so you could fish it. However, if I show up and you're there you should move or let me have the sweet spot. You should always show respect and appreciation towards the guy who hooked you up - I do.

If we are tight enough for you to show me "your" spot to begin with shouldn't it stand to reason that if you came upon me in "your" spot that we would be tight enough to fish there together?

Definitely, so long as it's big enough for two.

what secrete spots are you talking about?
There aren't any long term spots on the ocean side, sand moves a lot. In the back bays and rivers there can be a few.
Example, over the course of the last 10 years I've walked the entire shore of Raritan Bay at dead low moon tides making notes of structure as I go. That's a lot of time and a lot of miles. I've found a few bits of structure that hold fish, two of which are very very small, less then 5 yards wide, but very productive under the right conditions.

I should have gone and muscled in along side of EVERY ONE ELSE because that's where the fish-catching was going on.

That's fine if it's what you're into. I personally can't stand mob scene fishing which is why I've worked hard to find spots where I can get fish away from the crowd.

I would LOVE some one to tell me where the fish are. There are a thousand little paths that lee down to the river. Some of them are disgusting places filled with trash, human refuse and garbage. Not all of them get you to the river. Not all of them get you to a place where you can catch Bass. Nothing I love more than tramping all my crap over some abandoned dirty diapers only to get skunked. I guess that's "putting in my time"

So since I've already done miles and miles and years of tramping through the garbage and poison ivy and mosquitoes (which I have) I should tell you where those two great little tiny spots I found are located?

and when I DO find a clean, quiet place that produces fish I won't hide it from people because I might want to go back there three weeks from next Thursday.

And with that attitude NO ONE is ever going to tell you anything.

Short story:
A very good friend of mine told another friend about a small offshore rock pile that holds big fish. The friend he told told someone else.
Three weeks later, during a money tournament the first guy goes out to his spot to find the friend of the friend anchored up on it, there's only room for one boat.
Guess who won the tournament and $10000.
Guess who's never telling his friend anything ever again.
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  #32  
Old 07-05-2008, 02:14 PM
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Striperjim Striperjim is offline
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

After having been at this a while I try to keep the hard earned productive spots to a select few I trust.
Theres a fairly older eastern european gentlemen i know that uses a repel rope on a treacherous incline to access a spot.
Even with the rope the access is very difficult. There was some buzz that he caught a 50 back there one night and the next few days the place adjacent to it was packed and filthy with loud boom boxes and arguments and fights over "this is my rock" type dumb stuff. The spot cant be accessed at normal tides. I was there that night waiting to see his 50 when he walked it out but he actually lugged it up over the cliff on the rope rather than show it to the hordes of disrespectful googs. (It was actually more like 35 pounds.)
It sounds selfish not giving up a productive spot but it would quickly become unfishable and the guys who fish them, fish them with the proper technique and etiquette for the most part. Googs usually get run over and rightly so. Unfortunately though not the ones with boats.
They can be downright dangerous.
By googs i mean as an example - the guy with the loudest mouth in the tackle shop who tells everyone about his fishing prowess with his kmart equipment, where the fish are caught and then has the same mono on since the reel was bought, an extra white bucket, double burner lantern, 2 dozen clams and the oldest bunker in the place. And leaves all his garbage including line and packaging at "the spot". First cast he nearly breaks someones nose with a back swing of the rod and crosses 4 lines. After untangling he doesnt reel in when someone close by has a nice fish on. Thats a fairly good definition of what happens when you give up your spot to freely.
They have miles of beach front they can go to and most of the guys that learned to read the water, structure, and generally endured the hardships of learning this most frustrating game, dont fish anywhere near said googans if at all possible. The best that can be done is to help them assimillate some knowledge and etiquette along the way and hope an epiphany happens so they are less likely to disrespect the environment and the fishery in general.
It was a major goal and philosophy of our web site.
It is so much better to teach someone what to look for so he can apply it rather than give gps coordinates for thousands to download and pass around.
Not everyone agrees with this philosophy but many of us do. I would gladly help someone who asked privately rather than demand it publically and that is contingent upon my mood and level of respect for the party asking. (just being honest) Many more people read these forums than you would think.
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  #33  
Old 07-05-2008, 03:13 PM
BxBomber2306 BxBomber2306 is offline
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

Yeah i know this is an old thread, but I appreciate and respect the whole spot deal. I have a question, what's the proper spot courtesy as far as:
I see a guy from a distance working a spot. I didn't follow him or anything like that I just happen to catch a glimpse of him. Well a day or two later I figure out how to get there and I fish that same spot. Obviously I keep my mouth shut about it, and try to leave it with no sign that I ever been there. I don't even give a report vague or otherwise. It also goes without saying that if he should happen to show up while I'm there, I should either pack up and leave if it only holds one, or surrender the sweetspot to him! I'm conflicted on this. I kind of feel like this is "carpetbaggin" the guy did all the work and I come along ridding his coat tails, on the other hand I feel like it's not mugging or spotburning if I'm the only one there and I keep my mouth shut about it. What's the proper etiquette as far as this?
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  #34  
Old 07-05-2008, 04:28 PM
Mr.Grumpy Mr.Grumpy is offline
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

Suds,

I agree with most of what you posted in reply. I ESPECIALLY agree about the language. I should have not cussed and I am sorry that I got carried away.

I'm not sure about this part though:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudsy View Post
and when I DO find a clean, quiet place that produces fish I won't hide it from people because I might want to go back there three weeks from next Thursday.

And with that attitude NO ONE is ever going to tell you anything.
I'm not sure what attitude you are referring to. You indicated that you thought that I had some sort of bad attitude because I would tell somebody where they could fish that didn't involve climbing through human excrement. I think that makes me a pretty stand up kind of guy actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudsy View Post
Short story:
A very good friend of mine told another friend about a small offshore rock pile that holds big fish. The friend he told told someone else.
Three weeks later, during a money tournament the first guy goes out to his spot to find the friend of the friend anchored up on it, there's only room for one boat.
Guess who won the tournament and $10000.
Guess who's never telling his friend anything ever again.
I'm not sure what you are getting at here. In this particular instance there is a fairly direct line of causation and a short timeline but, in the long run, that's how those things are passed down. Honestly, at that level of skill and with that kind of money at stake your friend should have kept his mouth shut tight until after the tournament! As I said, I'm not even remotely looking at it from that angle, I'm looking at it from the angle of a complete NooB who is not having fun. I want to catch a few fish and have a good time. Without catching a comnicable disease from all the crap all the rednecks and sustinance fishermen leave behind.

I guess that I am also looking at it from a different perspective since I DO go out and try to read structure and try to figure things out for myself. I just do a sucky job at it. Like today. I spent a couple hours on the incoming tide fishing a rocky prominance working lures with the tide from the current into slack water twords the shore. I tried top, middle and bottom with different colors, weights speeds and materiels. Nothing. Now, from every thing I have read, those fish should have been sitting right there. If they were some one sewed all their mouths shut. Or I was in the wrong place. Or throwing the wrong stuff. And since there were about a thousand guys out fishing in he general area I'm sure one of them thought that he was entitled to be standing where I was and was cursing me for being in "his" spot.
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  #35  
Old 07-05-2008, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Grumpy View Post
Suds,

I'm not sure what attitude you are referring to. You indicated that you thought that I had some sort of bad attitude because I would tell somebody where they could fish that didn't involve climbing through human excrement. I think that makes me a pretty stand up kind of guy actually.

I agree, if it's your spot that you found on your own it's your right to tell someone about it (just please not the entire world on the internet - chances are it's someone else's secret spot too and burning it to the world wouldn't be nice)

If someone gave you the spot then you should take it to the grave.


I guess that I am also looking at it from a different perspective since I DO go out and try to read structure and try to figure things out for myself. I just do a sucky job at it. Like today. I spent a couple hours on the incoming tide fishing a rocky prominance working lures with the tide from the current into slack water twords the shore. I tried top, middle and bottom with different colors, weights speeds and materiels. Nothing. Now, from every thing I have read, those fish should have been sitting right there. If they were some one sewed all their mouths shut. Or I was in the wrong place. Or throwing the wrong stuff.

Chances are that one of your presentations was the right one, they either weren't there when you were or weren't feeding.
Fishing can be frustrating at times.

And since there were about a thousand guys out fishing in he general area I'm sure one of them thought that he was entitled to be standing where I was and was cursing me for being in "his" spot.

I guarantee that was the case. I go down to the jetties to see guys on my favorite rocks all the time - they were there first so I give them space

Since I just brought that up, let me define "space".
Fishing close enough to another person so that it forces them to change the way they were fishing is called a "mugging" and is considered very rude.
(I'm not saying anyone here is doing that, it was just the right moment to throw that definition in here)
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  #36  
Old 07-05-2008, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

Quote:
Originally Posted by BxBomber2306 View Post
Yeah i know this is an old thread, but I appreciate and respect the whole spot deal. I have a question, what's the proper spot courtesy as far as:
I see a guy from a distance working a spot. I didn't follow him or anything like that I just happen to catch a glimpse of him. Well a day or two later I figure out how to get there and I fish that same spot. Obviously I keep my mouth shut about it, and try to leave it with no sign that I ever been there. I don't even give a report vague or otherwise. It also goes without saying that if he should happen to show up while I'm there, I should either pack up and leave if it only holds one, or surrender the sweetspot to him! I'm conflicted on this. I kind of feel like this is "carpetbaggin" the guy did all the work and I come along ridding his coat tails, on the other hand I feel like it's not mugging or spotburning if I'm the only one there and I keep my mouth shut about it. What's the proper etiquette as far as this?
Tough one and a pretty grey area.

I say do what feels right to you.
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  #37  
Old 07-06-2008, 07:21 AM
StrawMan StrawMan is offline
 
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

I caught my first "keeper" last night. It was just 28". I caught it from the surf in Winthrop on the north side on a gold jointed bomber. That's my first striper this year, and I worked for it. I could easily tell you where I was standing but there really is only room for one person. Winthrop isn't that big, so I consider this a fair report. Anyone that wants to catch some fish in Winthrop can work just like I did. When I walked it back to my car I hugged the wall and put the fish down between my leg and the wall to hide it, to show the least amount of people as possible. The jetties were littered with latins and a few people did see me catch and walk the fish out. I kept an eye for where I was fishing because I wanted to go back there. Tonight I won't bother going there because I know someone will be standing there.
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  #38  
Old 07-06-2008, 10:39 PM
StrawMan StrawMan is offline
 
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

No one was there tonight, but I did get skunked...or should I say grassed? Every retrieve, and I mean EVERY F__KING RETRIEVE I had 15lbs of grass, algae or seaweed to wrestle with. Tiring as hell but the scenery was nice
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  #39  
Old 07-07-2008, 01:21 PM
stripers247 stripers247 is offline
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

I'm of the opinion that unless you actually take the person there and show them your technique, they won't catch anyway. A spot means nothing unless you know what to do with it.
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  #40  
Old 07-07-2008, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

There are fishin' Holes, and then there are fishin' holes.
If you pay a charter, the courtesy would be to respect his / her fishing locales and and worry more about enjoying your time on board.

If a Captain puts you on a hotspot, and sees you there 2 days later, it might not be a big deal..... unless you are anchored there with 4 buddys and hogging the water.
See what happens next time you charter. Captains with sea salt in their blood don't easily forget, or forgive.

Chances are the captain has some reserves for when he hits the water himself, in lean or slow days, you might get to see some of them. Maybe Captains should have a disclaimer about burning before they take anyone aboard... like they would for alcohol or safety reg.

hrrmmm...

I have been fishing with my business partner for 3 years now.... like every other day. Still have some hunny holes on the brook down home he doesn't know about.
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  #41  
Old 07-11-2008, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

All I gotta say is GoogleEarth has gotta be a fisherman's best friend. If you live far away and want to scout ahead of time...scour the shoreline you will be visiting for a SPOT. Technology...its amazing.
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  #42  
Old 07-11-2008, 11:31 PM
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBaiter View Post
All I gotta say is GoogleEarth has gotta be a fisherman's best friend. If you live far away and want to scout ahead of time...scour the shoreline you will be visiting for a SPOT. Technology...its amazing.
One thing to keep in mind, if you use it to scout out front many of the sandbars and structure you see might be different or not even there. The pictures on Google are usually a few months old - and sand moves a lot.

Nothing will ever replace scouting at low tide. The internet can only give you ideas where to do that scouting.

For looking at hard structure Google rocks!
Here's one of my favorite jetties (and no I'm not saying which one it is )
Until I saw the Google pictures I never knew the underwater structure looked anything like this.

Click image for larger version

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  #43  
Old 07-16-2008, 08:34 AM
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FLOATSUM FLOATSUM is offline
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

Google is a wonderful thing. Almost as good as being there (at times).
Though not a all answers thing, still very helpful.

As for "spots", I'm greedy. Very selective on who / if I show stuff.
Someone out of the blue like in a bait shop will get the traditional "secret spot" scoop. Mostly a few of the "secret" breachways that are over run with tourist anyways. Basicly the "secrets" are common tourist gatherings.

My most prized areas,,, I do not tell.... anyone,,,, ever (except the dog, and she'll not tell - right Duke?). Simple as that.

Why? I'm a greedy, grouchy old bassturd!

Honestly, nothing is completely unknown as to places. Even my most secret I'm sure gets frequented by others at one time or anouther.
The way land is getting closed, access denied, parking restricted and all, can you blame anyone for keeping still?
I've gained most of my "spots" by knowing property owners for a good many years, putting in the time, making friends, acting responsible, etc.
I just feel I owe them the courtesy of being discreat and not encouraging parking congestion, trashings, noise, invasion of privacy, etc.
I know, if I bring you, and being the good guy you are you'd keep it a secret too. My best buddy said the same on a "secret" clamming spot. Then he told me and everyone in the bar where and how well he did one day.
well,,, that's not such a great spot anymore.
Maybe I'm "hardened"? but the above has happened way,, way too many times, and the shore isn't getting any bigger.
Call me what you want, but I'm not telling. Find your own like I have. Trial, error, fishless days, and lots of time.
Enjoy,
Bassturd
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  #44  
Old 07-16-2008, 10:51 AM
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jimi4290 jimi4290 is offline
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

i couldnt help it suds....i had to make sure everyone knows which rock to stay off of.
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  #45  
Old 07-16-2008, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: Fishing "Spots"

I started this post over 3 years ago, and to this day, with all the banter and input, some people just dont get it( this is not meant to insult ANYONE, bear with me)...I guess I will never get used to the internet and the instant gratification scociety....I guess I am truely getting old.

First a history lesson:
When I started fishing the Merrimack river in the late sixty's and early 70's the place was a virtual sewer.... EVERY cast required that you clean the toilet paper off of the line by snapping it clean,it was not at all uncommon to have condoms hanging off your jigs and plugs, the shore line was littered with industrial and residential trash and waste, shopping carts, cars and logs, lost during upstream logging were lodged on the bottom or blocking the paths along the shore line, large chunks of wool floated down the waterway, the water color varied from blues to reds, depending on which die vat was getting emptied, so pardon me if I dont get a little weepy when some one has to deal with a little path side trash, I've seen the current state, it's pristine compared to what it was, waders or boots had to be scrubbed with bleach to make them fit to bring in to the house to remove the stench... there were no parks or access roads, parking was limited to mill employees and you walked or biked everywhere.... the Men doing the catching were tight lipped, hell they wouldnt even tell you what bait or lure they were using.. respect and trust was earned , not handed out over the internet for thousands to view...

I've never really printed the agony I endured from time to time during the learning process, the nights lost in back water creeks with my face and hands so swollen from bug bites that my vision was blurred,while I waited for day light and enough tide to float me off my grounding.... the "tips" given me from others were given only to derail me because I was close to figuring out what was going on...there were not alot of fish around back then , and every one over 16" was boxed, iced. and sent to market.. money was the incentive for those that were silent,catch and release was non existant...

I've never mentioned the broken arm I sustained from a fall from the jetty and the two mile walk back to my vehicle ...or the baptisim of a rouge wave that knocked me off my perch while I bent over to land a fish...the fish and I rejoined the battle in 6' of surging water... the fish won out.

I dont recall mentioning, how my fishing partner and I used to pack our bikes on Friday,and bike( before we could drive) to plum island( 30+ miles each way) Friday night and leave sunday afternoon, digging worms to sell and use for bait for schoolies which were also sold so we could buy a sandwich at the local sub shop... if the fishing was bad.. we went hungry until we arrived home...all this to learn more about the fish, that I have revolved my life around.

I've never mentioned the TWO boats I sunk while learning to navigate the mouth of the river or fish the beach front, I'm lucky to be here, all because NO ONE shared even one tid bit of info that would have made my life eaiser, there were many, many more hard lessons and mistakes...one ofthe most memorable being the mistake of showing someone at the marina 5 nice bass caught on a mudd flat after a week of babysitting fish that wouldnt eat, I was so happy and proud, I made the mistake of shareing this info with someone anxious to boost his own reputation.. he ran down to the local baitshop and made a public anouncement.... the next night, there were 14 boats in the exact location I was fishing, people running over the fish spooking them,I had a guy run over a fish that had about 30yards of line out, I tried to warn him off, all i got for my effort was a glimps of his middle finger as my line went limp, I never got a fish that night and I went home in disgust, lesson learned...when more than one persons has info,it's not a secret any longer....alot of time and effort goes into finding a place to fish alone, once the word gets out.. your not alone for long.

Beatings and skunkings are part of the process, every sucessful bass fisherman has gone through it, the best ones, use it to their advantage.. so pardon the lecture and nostalgic look at my past....but if you want to know why myself and other long time vetrans get feisty when asked where, or when I/they got a fish or where they are fishing, just think about some of this stuff, I did this for over 10 years before I got into fish consistanly....40 odd years latter, I'm still learning.. the beatings are just far less frequent.

this post was not intended to target any indivuidual, or belittle any "newbies" efforts, I wouldnt want to start over again, I dont think I would have the fortitude to do it all again, maybe that is why I do take certain individuals under my wing, but they must earn my trust and respect first, this is only an account of one mans quest to be as good at this damanding sport as he could be and to help keep you from getting discouaraged when it seems like the "vets" are dumping on you, and I am not alone, those of us that have salt water in our veins, have earned the right to be a tad arrogant when it comes to sharing information, none of it came easy, as things are not coming easy for you, and some day, if you dont give up, you learn your lessons and file away the tiny tidbits of valuable info, you will be the keeper of the gate after we are gone... then.. and only then will it all make sense.
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