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The Saltwater License and why its coming.

31K views 68 replies 33 participants last post by  badfish2 
#1 ·
The 18 of 23 Coastal States with the Recreational Saltwater License
More beginning Jan 2010

This post is not designed to stir up controversy just to put out some factual info on the clause in the reauthorization of the Magnuson Stevens Act of 2006.
In response of the shortcomings of the MRFSS (Marine Recreational Fishery Statistics Survey) , NOAA Fisheries commissioned a scientific review in 2004. The National Research Council reviewed the program and concluded that the survey needed to be completely redesigned. The methods used at the time were to basically count anglers at different jetties, beaches and access points, and by randomly telephoning households in coastal communities, not very scientific.
They concluded that the data management was flawed, no big surprize there. The primary recommendation was to improve data collection through a registry of saltwater anglers that would provide appropriate contact information from anglers fishing in all marine waters, both state and Federal. This is designed to make data collection and survey data much more accurate.
The recommendation was included in the reauthorization which tasks NOAA Fisheries with creating a national registry by January 2009.
The Department of Commerce can begin to charge a federal fishing fee to support the registry by January 2011.
However the act also gives the government the authority to grant exemptions to states that collect suitable information for the registry through a state fishing license program.
No state wants to see a federal program collecting the monies so. The states want the fee to go back into the state budgets.

The key issue for most of us who oppose a license is a dedicated funding to improve the fishery and not go into a general fund.
Ct and New Hampshire have proposed legislation for 2008 season and have made it clear that funds from saltwater licensing would go to support their respective fisheries.
 
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#4 ·
The Big Brother act is actually set it in motion anyway.
The fed bureaucrats need source funding to pay for the surveys and data collection of which they will in all likelihood do an usual atrocious job. The obvious and best remedy is the exemption to the states for licensing - so stipulating the funds be dedicated to the state fisheries. That stipulation should have been written in to law.
 
#5 ·
I am sure that we can rely on our elected officials to put the generated license revenue directly towards improving our fisheries. Heck, look how well they have done with all the dedicated funding from Motor Vehicle licensing, registration fees, tolls, & insurance fees to repair our roads & bridges. Oh yeah, I almost forgot the wonderful job they have done w/ dedicated education funding from the lottery too in order to keep school taxes in check... Trust me, law or not, they will put it in a general fund & piss it away on some "wonderful social program". All it will be is a revenue generator for the states with little or no improvement for saltwater anglers.
 
#6 ·
go back a couple of years and find my thread about this. in the hands of the wrong people for the right reasons (self serving) the feds will enact a license before the state does and have it;s way with monies.in state legislature it is against the law to take monies made from a license and use it toward anything other than what it was designed for. however, the federal gov;t can (and most likely will) use it for most anything in the confines of some sort of conservation aspect which would not surprise me has next to nothing to do with our interests. slow ya blow. ny state may just get hosed again. who knows.



 
#8 ·
if it works to keep the riff raff off the beaches and piers then i am all for it. but it shouldn;t be applicable to all individuals who go on a partyboat or charter. the vessel/captains licence should be ample, no need to stick it to the working guy as that would really put a hurtin on that business



 
#13 ·
I really hope they take in account that alot of children enjoy fishing. I work with kids with behavioral disorders and have started a fishing club that they are all excited to start. I don't mind paying for a liscense but there are fewer and fewer free things left for minors to get outdoors and do. I hope they put in some kind of clause that minors fish for free, as it will only lead to more people paying for a liscense when they come of age.
 
#14 ·
Well here it is:

Link

NOAA proposes saltwater fishing license
By The Associated Press wire report
June 11, 2008 03:41 PM

WASHINGTON - The government wants to know who's fishing for fun in federal ocean waters.

Recreational anglers and spearfishers would be required to be registered, starting next year, under a rule proposed Wednesday by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
NOAA's Fisheries Service said it wants to get more accurate data on recreational fish catches. Commercial fishers already need licenses or permits and thus would not have to register again, the agency said.
The registry is required under a change in the law and would cover recreational fishing in federal waters as well as fishing anywhere for what are called anadromous species, such as striped bass, salmon and shad, that spawn in rivers and streams and spend their adult lives in estuaries and the ocean.
Registrations will include an angler's name, address, telephone number and the regions where fishing is conducted. NOAA said this information will not be made public, it will be used only to conduct surveys.
States that issue their own saltwater fishing licenses could apply for an exemption if their records provide sufficient information for the federal database. Those include the states on the West Coast, including Alaska, the Gulf Coast and the South Atlantic.
Hawaii and the states from New Jersey to Maine do not offer such licenses, NOAA said. The agency hopes the federal program will encourage those states to start their own licensing programs.
Maine lawmakers last year considered a saltwater license but decided that the issue required more study.
The federal registry covers fishing in federal waters, which are generally three miles off the coast. Exceptions are Texas and the west coast of Florida, where federal waters begin nine miles off the coast.
NOAA said registration would be free the first two years and an annual fee ranging from $15 to $25 would be imposed starting in 2011.
Those under age 16 would be exempt and fees would be waived for indigenous people, such as members of federally recognized tribes.
Anglers who fish only on licensed party, charter, or guide boats would also be exempt, since these vessels are surveyed separately from the angler surveys.
The agency said it needs to get better data on recreational anglers to be sure it protects fish stocks but doesn't impose unnecessary limits.
 
#15 ·
Wynter said:
I hope they put in some kind of clause that minors fish for free
NOAA said registration would be free the first two years and an annual fee ranging from $15 to $25 would be imposed starting in 2011.Those under age 16 would be exempt and fees would be waived for indigenous people, such as members of federally recognized tribes.Anglers who fish only on licensed party, charter, or guide boats would also be exempt, since these vessels are surveyed separately from the angler surveys.
 
#16 ·
Well east coast buddies...Be very aware of where the money goes,,A few years back, we west coast ( california ) were paying about $40 ayear plus about $5 for a steelhead stamp, & along came a striper stamp for $5..Now many of us figured that this might possibly help our declining striper population... But the stripers keep declining along with the water going south to make a few Southern californians rich..Then lo & behold , we find out the stamp money was'nt going to the fishery but to other projects the state needed...Well , we did'nt stand for that & protested & they stopped the striper stamp...So the following year , they brought out a Bay inhancement stamp....$5...this is required to fish inland bays includuing rivers up a few miles..The fishery continues to decline....stripers considered a trash fish by DFG , despite all the fight we put up ..The salmon season Closed all year due to poor fish counts...So be aware before your wonderful fisery has the same results.. We have to deal with the water bandits down south who donate $ to the politions...I'm sure you have same problems with the commercial fishery doing the same thing...I've seen your wonderful states R.I. & Mass this June & would be appalled to see the same thing happen to your fish...Keep up the good fight..Your friend at the west coast...Gregorjimhello.gif
 
#17 ·
cannot see how they were able to get away with using monies for other things. perhaps a lawsuit against them for that would've cost more than the collection so it was killed to appease the masses. i am sure they were not suppose to use money slotted for that anywhere else but i guess it's true if you say it was. just another (oh by the way, you must pay additional for this and that) may just be in the cards for us too. glad to hear your response and input G.



 
#18 ·
I haven't been in California that long but even so I don't see the fishing license being enforced......feel like I'm the only guy who dished out 40 bucks for one:BenNudd:

Ayways gregorjim.....you said that Stripers are considered a trash fish by the DFG????? What's that all about?
 
#19 ·
The DFG don't recinize the stripers as native fish as they were brought here from back east many years ago by train...Took two trips before they finally survived the trip... Water wars which devistate our delta & send stripers , smelt etc down south in canals with the water for growers in Southern Cal .Lots of this fishery gets pumped into fields for watering crops..They've found very small fish in the fields when examined..Looks like they get water & our fish fertilizer at the..same time . Now when we fight for the fishery , growers say the salmon have declined because the aggressive stripers are eating them..They also donate money to political people running for office , Governor etc...And who do you think appoints the DFG. or pushing for more & more water to the south...WE keep fighting to stop the flow south, mainly with endangered species acts ( such as delta smelt ) which should have been a no brainer ? But I guess thats only for the Tax Payer....& not the few individuals who continueto get rich with cheap water rates & costly crops...So the DFG does very little to help the fishery or inforce the poaching going on. It's really a sad situation to see such a wonderfull fishery go down the drain , & see the government do nothing aboutit..To think we had aboutAbout 7-10 million stripers & tons of salmon . all co-existing together..until the water wars started & now we see the results...We keep trying to fight in courts, but to no avail so far....Jim
 
#20 ·
The DFG don't recinize the stripers as native fish as they were brought here from back east many years ago by train...Took two trips before they finally survived the trip... Water wars which devistate our delta & send stripers , smelt etc down south in canals with the water for growers in Southern Cal .Lots of this fishery gets pumped into fields for watering crops..They've found very small fish in the fields when examined..Looks like they get water & our fish fertilizer at the..same time . Now when we fight for the fishery , growers say the salmon have declined because the aggressive stripers are eating them..They also donate money to political people running for office , Governor etc...And who do you think appoints the DFG. or pushing for more & more water to the south...WE keep fighting to stop the flow south, mainly with endangered species acts ( such as delta smelt ) which should have been a no brainer ? But I guess thats only for the Tax Payer....& not the few individuals who continueto get rich with cheap water rates & costly crops...So the DFG does very little to help the fishery or inforce the poaching going on. It's really a sad situation to see such a wonderfull fishery go down the drain , & see the government do nothing aboutit..To think we had aboutAbout 7-10 million stripers & tons of salmon . all co-existing together..until the water wars started & now we see the results...We keep trying to fight in courts, but to no avail so far....Jim
I don't want to rant on & on , but you east coasters have to really be aware of your great fishery & how it can easily be affected by pollution, spawning grounds elimated, baitfish overfished & sent to foreign countries ,etc..Remember how east coast bass were over fished commercially & almost wiped out...Finally brought back with slot limits, no commercial fishing etc,,,,,& I guess your men in charge did'nt get it? They started the Com fishing & I heard your baitfish were in some overfishing trouble also....All I can say is DON'T let them get a foot hold again on your fishery or you'll be traveling as we do for fishingtrips....Make sure everything is done right with monies allocated...Your concerned friend on the west coast...Jim
 
#23 ·
as far as the $5 license that was spent on other issues than the stripers, Nothing was done !! No one held accountable...Just melts tru the papers like it never happened...Then the bay & river stamp for $5...& as you say , another stamp for a second rod...You would think there would be adequate wardens available to protect the fishery, but we only get replys that there's not enough wardens to respond... SO much to the CAL TIP phone number they want you to call...Where in the *@(^% did the money go? The original story on the water wars is a group of So californian businessman bought up large ammounts of desert land east of Los Angeles for almost nothing..Then came the political machines in to deliver OUR water south in the canals... The ammount of water depleted our delta flushing action, marshes , baitfish etc...At same time these 13 GENTLEMEN have & continue to make tons of $ with the transformed desert land... And now want more water delivered south...It's all politics & money.....AND NO ONE IS ACCOUNTABLE !! Jim
 
#24 ·
There is absolutely no way anyone can say anything to make me feel good about a Saltwater Tax.
Federal dollars (our tax money) is already being squandered on B.S.
I was a commercial fisherman when the 200 mile limit was imposed. The day it started we woke up on George's Banks (yellowtailing) to find a flotilla of Spanish fishing boats fishing along side. when we reported to the C.G. about the situation, we found the response was "They have their Federal Permits."
The thought was to protect our fishery for American Fishermen,,,, in reality it was for the Federal Government to make more tax dollars with international licenses.
How about after WW1 & WW2, Korea, Viet Nam, etc. all the tax increases for war materials,,, after the wars did the taxes go down? NO! Now in Iraq they say there's no money? Where is the still taxed prior war's money going?
Commercial Fisherman are taxed to keep tabs on the fish,,, Now they want to tax us for the same thing?
still paying farmers not to grow wheat,, why, when so many people are starving around the world? If the farmer's can't make money growing wheat don't you think they're smart enough to change crops? Of course they already did, they grow something other on the land they are being paid not to grow wheat on. Like a double payday?
Federal agencies are as smart with money as a chimpanzee!
Recreational fishing tax? NO!
For the state to do it is even more disgusting. Look what they've done with the Deer, Pheasant, and State Waterfowl taxes! Not much.
Public rights of ways are being closed off by the well to do and the state refuses to take charge and keep them open. One year they increased the cost of fresh water fishing so they can keep maintaining the public fishing areas. The same year they did away with trash cans and trash removal!
Charlestown Breachway's "Camping area" is another. ALL that land was donated to fishermen (not tourist camping & beaching). It was a spot for local fishermen to go and fish without worrying about bothering a bather. A spot where one could fish and take a nap in their vehicle or home made camper. Now it's "Factory made self contained units only" for camping. My sportsman's tax dollars built the boat launch, and maintain. But you're not allowed to go there unless you've a factory camper and or boat trailer. if you want to launch a canoe, kayak, etc. you're off limits! From the parking area, you could walk / drive inland for some good flat fishing. Now they do all they can to discourage it and even have to old trails overgrown so you can't walk there with family and picnic things for a day with the kids. And on top of all that, everything (maintenance and such) is farmed out to an out of state corporation! Even the jobs were given away!
It's all disgusting. VERY disgusting. Areas closed, simple things not allowed, private state owned fishing sites, Federally maintained breachways that only the rich nearby property owners are allowed to enjoy (Quonny - wall is posted).
No, I'm not expecting ANYTHING positive from this politically motivated money making scheme of recreational taxation.
Land of the free? Sure, if you're an illegal alien. Wonder how many of them will buy the tax thing?
Enough SHEEPLE! We need some wolves on our side for awhile.
 
#25 ·
More & More There Bringing An End to A Great Sport. Lets Face It With Fee Increases On Fuel,Oil,Regs,Bait And Last But Not Least Boats The Politicians Need Even More Money. Look At The Quotas There Putting On Offshore Boats. Those Guys Are Forced To Fish Certian Days Certian Size With Less Crew Onboard When Is This Goverment Going To Smarten Up & Play Ball With The Working MAN
 
#26 ·
National - National Saltwater Angler Registry Proposed Rule --
Press Release

NOAA Fisheries Service is seeking comment on a proposed rule that requires anglers and spearfishers who fish recreationally in federal ocean waters to be registered before fishing in 2009.The rule would also require registration by those who may catch anadromous species anywhere, including striped bass, salmon and shad that spawn in rivers and streams and spend their adult lives in estuaries and the ocean.
The proposed rule satisfies the National Academy of Science National Research Council recommendations to establish a national database of saltwater anglers, and meets the requirements under the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act. The proposed rule is a part of a larger initiative of NOAA Fisheries Service to improve the quality and accuracy of data on marine recreational fishing and catches. The registry will also help measure the economic effects of recreational fishing on the national and local economies.
NOAA may exempt anglers from registration if they already have a state-issued saltwater fishing license or registration, and the state provides sufficiently complete information to place in the national registry. In certain instances, anglers in states participating in regional surveys of marine recreational fishing may also be exempted. The new rule allows states to apply for exemptions.
States on the West Coast (including Alaska), the Gulf Coast, and the South Atlantic offer saltwater fishing licenses. Hawaii and the states from New Jersey to Maine do not.
Fishermen would be required to be registered annually and NOAA will not charge a registration fee in the first two years. Beginning in 2011, the annual fee will be an estimated $15 to $25 per angler. Anglers under the age of 16 would be exempt from registering and fees would be waived for indigenous people, such as members of federally recognized tribes.
Anglers who fish only on licensed party, charter, or guide boats would also be exempt, since these vessels are surveyed separately from the angler surveys. Also, persons who hold commercial fishing licenses or permits, and are legally fishing under them, will be exempt from the registration requirement.
For the last 28 years, NOAA Fisheries Service has conducted recreational fishing surveys through random telephone interviews with residents living in coastal counties. NOAA and its regional and state partners conduct an extensive program of dockside interviews of anglers to obtain data on their catch.
The national saltwater registry will enable surveyors to interview only those people who fish, and will reach all anglers, not only those who live near the coast. To read the proposed rule, go to http://www.countmyfish.noaa.gov.
Comments on the proposed rule will be accepted until August 11, 2008 and should be mailed to: John Boreman, Director, Office of Science and Technology, NOAA Fisheries Service, 1315 East-West Highway, Silver Spring, MD 20910, Attn.: Gordon Colvin. Comments may also be submitted electronically at http://www.regulations.gov.
 
#27 ·
National Oceanic and AtmosphericAdministration
50 CFR Part 600
[Docket No. 071001548
-7827-02]
RIN 0648
-AW10​

Marine Recreational Fisheries of the United States;
National Saltwater Angler Registry Program​

AGENCY
National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS), National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), Commerce.​

ACTION
Proposed rule; request for comments.​

SUMMARY
NMFS proposes regulations to implement section 401(g) of theMagnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act (MSA). The regulations would establish a national registry of recreational fishers fishing in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), for anadromous species throughout their range or for Continental Shelf fishery resources beyond the EEZ. It also would exempt persons from that requirement if licensed by a state that provides registration data determined to be sufficient for the agency's needs. The requirement is intended to improve existing angling effort surveys in order to improve their efficiency, to reduce possible sources of bias and to improve confidence in survey results by anglers and fishery managers.​

Comments must be received by August 11, 2008.

ADDRESSES
You may submit comments, identified by RIN 0648-AW10, by any of the following methods:​

• Electronic submissions: Submit all electronic public comments via theFederal eRulemaking Portal http://www.regulations.gov
• Fax: 301-713-1875, Attn: Gordon Colvin.​
• Mail: John Boreman, Director,
Office of Science and Technology,
NMFS, 1315 East West Highway,
Silver Spring, MD 20910,
Attn: Gordon Colvin.

Instructions: All comments received are a part of the public record and will​

generally be posted to http://www.regulations.gov without change.
All personal identifying information (for example, name, address, etc.) voluntarily submitted by the commenter may be publicly accessible. Do not submit confidential business information or otherwise sensitive or protected information. NMFS will accept anonymous comments.​
 
#28 ·
The fees -
Where will the money go?
It gets sucked into the U.S. Treasury's general fund. There it gets commingled (read: lost) with a few trillion other dollars.
This is the one time that I have to agree with Ronald Reagan, who said the most terrifying words in English are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
It is still possible, however unlikely, that the Division of Marine Fisheries can make arrangements that would buy enough time to make legislative action possible. A state program would supercede the federal and at least keep licensing fees on Beacon - and not Capitol - Hill. But the clock is ticking.
Do we need a better management plan? Probably. The existing survey program consists of randomly dialed numbers of people with listed phone numbers in coastal towns. Call 'em up, ask if they've been fishing lately. Random numbers. I'm not kidding. We're talking about inefficiency that would shock a Cuban bureaucrat.
Are there positives to a registry? Maybe. But you can write laws until the cows come home, it will always be the actions of millions of individual fishermen who determine the outcome. Just as they did with the incredible striped bass comeback.
Rob Conery
Cape Cod times
 
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